Is there a difference between gas and an electric golf carts to tow gliders on the ground at a grass strip? (fuel and electricity are both available)? What would be the prefered motorisation if one was looking to get a used one for a club? Would an electric golf cart batteries last an afternoon at the field (assuming new batteries)? Thanks!

Hi Bastoune, I would go for the petrol option as you can soon re-fill the
tank dependant upon how much use it gets.

They will tow twin seaters quite easily on tarmac.
However if the glider is leaving ruts in soft ground, they struggle a lot.
This would use a lot of battery, in an electric cart.

The usual limiting factor is wheel grip, as the wheels will spin on damp
grass, due to the light weight on the rear tyres.

Pete



At 04:14 24 June 2012, Bastoune wrote:
>
> Is there a difference between gas and an electric golf carts to tow
>glider=
>s on the ground at a grass strip? (fuel and electricity are both
>available)=
>? What would be the prefered motorisation if one was looking to get a
used
>=
>one for a club? Would an electric golf cart batteries last an afternoon
at
>=
>the field (assuming new batteries)? Thanks!
>

My Club has used both types. Power is about the same. We only use gas now because of the cost and maintenance required for the battery's. They are great when new but in a club enviroment the battery's don't last and the cost to replace them is substantial.

On Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:14:52 PM UTC-5, Bastoune wrote:
> Is there a difference between gas and an electric golf carts to tow gliders on the ground at a grass strip? (fuel and electricity are both available)? What would be the prefered motorisation if one was looking to get a used one for a club? Would an electric golf cart batteries last an afternoon at the field (assuming new batteries)? Thanks!

I chose gas (Club Car). I didn't want to have batteries quit while out on the field. I also had some work done on the clutch to gear it down lower.

I've been in four or five clubs and commercial operations that have used both. The electric carts seemed to have better speeds for towing gliders with a wing walker -- that is, they could tow at about the same speed as the ground crew. With gas I was on the throttle, back off, back on, etc., just to stay slow enough to avoid running away from the wing walker. Perhaps you could gear the cart down and avoid this.

I will admit that batteries are an expense and they have to be kept up. But at my last operation (commercial) the line crew were given the responsibility of tending to batteries on a regular basis and we got good results from the batteries -- two years or more operation on an almost daily basis, running out and back to the line (about half a mile each way) numerous times, and towing half a dozen or more gliders out and back. We had battery problems very rarely as long as the ground crew tended to water levels, corrosion prevention and charging on a regular basis.

>What would be the prefered motorisation if one was looking to get a used one for a club? Would an electric golf cart batteries last an afternoon at the field (assuming >new batteries)? Thanks!

Electric carts are great, so long as it's one with modern speed
control as they get about double the mileage/charge and work better at
low speeds. EZ Go carts made the switch in 1986, so 1987 or newer are
worthwhile but older than 86 are not. Charge lasts all day, sometimes
all weekend without recharging...

-Paul

Our club has both gas carts and an electric cart. The electric is
used mainly to transfer disabled passengers and pilots into the
gliders. http://www.freedomswings.ca/images/intehnews/ff-hoist.pdf

The advantage of electric is excellent speed and position control.
Would you back up a gas cart with a passenger in a hoist to your
gliders? The centrifugal or snowmobile V-pulley systems are abrupt on
our gas carts, and I don't know how fast you walk your wing when your
plane is being towed by a cart, but they seem to go either too fast or
slow, and taking up slack on the tow rope requires consumate skill.
With an electric, with a modern controller, such as a Curtis, it's
easy. The series-wound electric has maximum torque at zero RPM, so
pulling any of the gliders isn't a problem.

I believe that the battery "issues" are based on people's experience
using obsolete technology for chargers. We use a
http://batterytender.com/electrical-vehicle/high-frequency-smt-golf-car-charger-br-48v-at-10a.html
It's bolted right to the cart so it can be plugged in anywhere. All
you have to do is plug it in and forget it. It won't overcharge and
takes care of everything. I'm guessing it quadruples battery life.
I'll leave it for other club members to correct me, but the batteries
in the cart were 1 years old when the hoist conversion took place, and
3 years later they are still ok. I check the water in the spring and
fall, and it hasn't been a problem. We leave it plugged in all
winter, and anyone can plug it in at the end of the day. There's a
"gas guage" on the dash.

Having said that, if my plane is on the flight line and I have
forgotten my small brim hat or GPS bluetooth mouse in my car, I grab a
gas cart because they are faster, but that's our carts specifically,
not because it's electric or not.

..

On Jun 23, 9:14*pm, Bastoune > wrote:
> *Would an electric golf cart batteries last an afternoon at the field (assuming new batteries)? Thanks!

They do for us. As a matter of fact, I do not think we ever depleted
the batteries below 75% in one day. That's assuming that the built-in
battery level indicator can be trusted.

But, we have a hard dirt runway. We'd use more battery juice on grass.
Also, most of the time we are in a position to launch from where a
glider stopped after landing. YMMV.

The only gas-powered tow vehicle I drove (it was a quad, not a golf
cart) was very difficult to drive slow.

Bart

On Sunday, June 24, 2012 3:58:05 AM UTC-4, Peter Higgs wrote:
> Hi Bastoune, I would go for the petrol option as you can soon re-fill the
> tank dependant upon how much use it gets.
>
> They will tow twin seaters quite easily on tarmac.
> However if the glider is leaving ruts in soft ground, they struggle a lot..
> This would use a lot of battery, in an electric cart.
>
> The usual limiting factor is wheel grip, as the wheels will spin on damp
> grass, due to the light weight on the rear tyres.
>
> Pete


Tarmac – A common but inaccurate term often referring to the paved areas of airports where aircraft park. Usually referring to the airport ramp or “apron” near the terminals, hangars or FBO’s. The vast majority of aircraft operating areas are however constructed of concrete, not “tarmac”. The Wick Airport at Wick in Caithness, Scotland is one of the few airports that still has a real tarmac runway.

In July 26, 1904, Hooley, E. Purnell received U.S. Patent 765,975 for the “Apparatus for the preparation of tar macadam” which involves involved mechanically mixing tar and aggregate (crushed stone or gravel) prior to lay-down, and then compacting the mixture with a steam roller. The tar was modified with the addition of small amounts of Portland cement, resin and pitch.

As petroleum production increased in the mid 20th century, the by-product of refining process, asphalt became available in huge quantities and largely supplanted the use of tar due to its reduced temperature sensitivity. The Macadam construction process also became quickly obsolete due to its high manual labor requirement.

we use a pawnee 235 as a golf cart can not go fast enough to get airbourne
!

On Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:14:52 PM UTC-5, Bastoune wrote:
> Is there a difference between gas and an electric golf carts to tow gliders on the ground at a grass strip? (fuel and electricity are both available)? What would be the prefered motorisation if one was looking to get a used one for a club? Would an electric golf cart batteries last an afternoon at the field (assuming new batteries)? Thanks!

We use electric. No problems with batteries, and we have to tow back to launch point after every landing. All grass field.

Carts have no trouble towing gliders or towplanes, and last all day.

Easy to control speed down to a creep, fast enough to go to far end of field in short time, powerful enough to carry 4 people, sandbags, ballast weights, etc.

We plug them in every night to chargers in hangar.

Highly recommended.

I don't have much experience with the gas ones (other than on a golf course), but they did not seem as well suited to slow towing as electric carts.


Kirk
StLouis Soaring Association

Here's how I geared down my gas cart (1998 Club Car) for use at the airport..

(http://www.cartpartsplus.com/machining-your-driven-clutch.html?osCsid=c2138c772837f67677c85268c3d9c0a 9)

It can crawl really slow and there's no problem with maintaining a slow speed when towing gliders. There's a couple of small rises at our field as well, and it has no problem climbing them. It doesn't go very fast (maybe 10-12 mph), but it's way nicer then having to maintain batteries and chargers.

Food for thought...

The Soaring Club of Houston uses four EZGO electrics and have had good results. They are mid 90 to mid 2000 models and all are series type carts. There is an excellent site http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/electric-ezgo/ that gives all sorts of information about carts. I am the golf cart maintenance person and it really helps to have one person in charge. They do take work to maintain and keep running well. The battery fluid level must be checked and filled at least once per month and all connections need to be tightened at the same time. The most important thing to keep the batteries going the longest is to keep the carts on the charger (each cart has a charger) as much as possible during the working day and then to make sure they are fully charged at the end of the day. Our batteries usually last 5 - 6 years.

ASW27 BV

We tried gas pwered golf karts for a couple of years but they couldnt take
it. The transmissions fell apart every 3 months.
Now we use John Dear diesel Mules. Much more robust and in low gear will
pull a K21 through boggy ground. Two years on and they all are reliable.
Lasham uk 59,000 movements ayear.

Thanks all for your input and insight on the topic!